Smarty Pants, with Denzil Eden – Episode 473 of The Action Catalyst Podcast

Entrepreneur, professor, and Founder/CEO of Smarty, Denzil Eden, shares the 3 principles of AI, addressing some common fears and concerns around AI, the importance of role models and seeing yourself in the work, and the one tiny word that shifts imposter syndrome to a growth mindset.

About Denzil:

As the solo technical female founder (MIT, HBS, Microsoft) of Smarty, an AI-driven productivity tool, Denzil understands the evolving landscape of tech startups and the role of AI in shaping this industry, with insights and lessons learned from founding, coding, building, and scaling a tech startup, navigating the venture journey as a woman in the tech field, and the unique challenges and opportunities it presents, and how AI can level up your work productivity.

Denzil started coding when she was 8, and took that passion to MIT, Harvard Business School, and Microsoft, working as a software engineer, product manager, and now founder. Along the way, she tried out a lot of careers from finance, teaching at San Francisco State, law, Smart City policy consulting, and more. As the founder of Smarty, an AI-driven productivity tool, she’s been at the forefront of harnessing AI to transform everyday work life for years, pushing to use technology to live your life to the fullest. There is a right way to plan your days and AI can make it easy. She is passionate about demystifying how AI works, exploring the future of technology and work tools, and advocating for the use of software to create work/life balance.

Learn more at Smarty.ai.

The Action Catalyst is presented by the Southwestern Family of Companies. With each episode, the podcast features some of the nation’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing meaningful tips and advice. Learn more at TheActionCatalyst.com, subscribe below or wherever you listen to podcasts, and be sure to leave a rating and review!

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(Transcribed using A.I. / May include errors):

Stephanie Maas
I am super excited to talk with you. Incredible and super inspiring background, and I have just recently been introduced to the world of AI, so I would love to hear your journey from your words.

Denzil Eden
Definitely. And thank you so much for having me. I’m very excited to be here. I started my journey pretty young, like I started coding when I was in second or third grade, and it was because my school taught logo, which was this, like programming language for kids. It had a turtle. You would tell the turtle where to go and what to do. I just loved it. It just made so much sense to me. It was logical. You could do really cool things. And that was how I first fell in love with computer science, and I kind of took that passion with me all the way to through high school, and eventually decided, like, that’s what I want to do. I want to learn more. Took that passion with me to MIT, where I went for undergrad, and ended up doing like a master’s there as well, with a focus on AI. But at that time, AI was still in its like, much more earlier stages, so I did a thesis project in human computer interactions, and I actually ended up building a precursor to Slack, but for classrooms. So it was ahead of its time. It was all about asynchronous collaboration. And I probably should have made a company out of it, coming out of my masters, but I thought being a founder was just not for me. I did not think that was something I would enjoy doing. I didn’t think that was something was something someone like me is supposed to do. I don’t know why. It was just something I really felt at that time. So I ended up going into big tech instead. I was working at Microsoft. Started as a PM, so really on the product side at PowerPoint, missed being technical, missed coding things and building things from scratch. And so ended up switching to being a software engineer at Yammer, got a gamut of experiences there and realized that I still wanted more, or I wasn’t sure what I was missing, so I was trying out a bunch of other things on the side, I decided to go to business school because I felt like the best way to really hone out my skill set and also take some time to figure out what I wanted to do. And that’s really where the idea for smarty, which is what I’m working on today, came for me. I was just feeling overwhelmed with all the things that I was doing. I knew that technology could automate a lot of the tasks I needed to do, and so I started building Smarty for myself. It was a chat bot. I would tell Smarty what I need to do. It would try to do it for me. And I remember pitching it to my first investor, and she was like, No, this makes no sense. This is not how you pitch things. I got so much feedback. It was really great. I kept in touch with her and kept pitching Smarty over and over again over the years, and eventually she wrote us our first check, and that’s how I got started. And leads me to here today, where I’m working on sorority full time. So something that I can say to Smarty today is like coffee with Stephanie at Blue Bottle in San Francisco at 2pm London time and Smarty will figure out the location, the time zone difference, add you to the event and send a calendar invite immediately. And that’s just in calendar management. But really, all of the things that your executive assistant does across task management, scheduling, links, contact management and creating notes, Mind Mapping, we’re trying to bring all of this administrative features that you would use an executive assistant for, making it conversational and allowing you to get it done instead. So that’s really like the goal. What’s already today, we are trying to be this AI powered executive assistant for people who don’t have one.

Stephanie Maas
That is incredible. Okay, so how many years ago was it that you first had the thought, hey, I’m not a founder. This isn’t for me. That’s not my thing.

Denzil Eden
Oh wow. That was probably like, right out of my like, thesis. I was like, 22, 23 10 years ago.

Stephanie Maas
Okay, so walk me through, how has that changed today?

Denzil Eden
Yeah, it’s a great question, because I sometimes think about it a lot. I’m like, why did it never even occur to me to try to turn this idea that, like, I had customers more into an actual business? And I think it was one just the timing of it. I think at that time my undergrad MIT was just much more theoretical. It had some entrepreneurial resources, but not like it does today. Today, there’s so many resources in every university that you go to, around early funding, around how do you like pitch an idea, how do you build an idea into a company? And so I think it was just a different time. There wasn’t as many resources around practical advice on how to turn an idea into a company. And so that, I think, is a big change, because even now, I think the undergrad is so different than what it was when I was there. I think the second big thing there weren’t like role models that I could look at and say, Wow, I can be like her. And I do think that’s really important, being able to see someone that reminds you of yourself in any way and shows a path. And I really didn’t have that. Then I thought the only people who could be founders were Mark Zuckerberg, which really, like, I couldn’t see myself in him, but I didn’t. And so it felt like so untenable in a lot of ways. And so I stayed away from that. And I I was also convinced that, like, my life path had to go in one direction, that I had to get a job, that. Was a nine to five job, and that was like what everyone did. And so I just didn’t have a lot of exposure to people not doing that. And I think that would be different today too, because I feel like more people are starting companies than ever before. I mean, just based off my experiences, I don’t know if that’s actually true, but I feel like the entrepreneurial energy is higher than it was 10 years ago. And then I think the third thing, really, for me, was just, I think, understanding that an idea, any idea, can be turned into a company. It’s all about, like, finding the right customers, figuring out how to monetize it. And I think that is something that you just learned through practice. And like, willingness to take risk, which I guess 10 years ago, I was very like, risk averse. I was like, not for me, but it has been a long journey, and I do think not seeing the right folks around you makes a big difference, because even today, there are more female founders than there were 10 years ago. But I don’t think there’s many founders in AI that are women, and I’m not sure why that’s the case, because it’s like such a new space. There’s a lot of opportunity here, but every time I go to an AI conference, it’s always a bunch of male speakers. It’s always the same thing. And so I’m and I know that there are women out there doing cool things, and so I think it’s a lot of exposure. I think it’s really important to, like, show the path be a role model, trying to find opportunities to get more younger women than younger folks in general, into the right spaces.

Stephanie Maas
I mean, I hope you do know and understand that you are now that role model that you did not have.

Denzil Eden
I hope so. I hope, like listening to me, everyone is like, I can start a company. Like, it’s not a specific pattern that that is best for running with your ideas. But also for younger women, I really hope, like they feel like they can do anything if they put their minds to it.

Stephanie Maas
Super cool. So let’s shift gears slightly. One of the things that is intriguing to me is this idea of demystifying AI. If someone came to you and, you know, said, Hey, layman’s term, help me understand this world of AI. Walk me through that.

Denzil Eden
Yeah, it’s a great question, and I actually think right now is the time to become AI literate. That’s the term that I use, because it’s not about necessarily understanding how the AI works. It’s about learning how to use AI regardless of what you’re doing. Because AI is just a tool. It empowers you to get things done. And the way that I like to think of AI is I have, like these three principles of AI. And so it’s the first is that it’s predictable. So it uses past data to predict what you’re going to do next, or to understand what is going to come next. So it’s really around using past experiences, past data sets, and trying to understand what will the future look like. So very predictive. The second big thing is proactive. It looks at that past data. It looks at this future potential outcomes, and it understands how to get to those outcomes, how to get those outcomes to be achieved. So proactive and try to get things done based off past data. And then the last one is personalized. It uses your personal data to understand what future steps will you take? What are your preferred outcomes, and how would you get to those outcomes? Personally? That is what AI is trying to do. It’s trying to take this data, it’s trying to take your data, and it’s trying to understand how to get to future outcomes from there. And so every time you see a tool, that’s how you should be thinking about it. And in terms of the future of AI. I think it’s really important for everyone to become AI literate, which just means learning how to use AI in whatever you’re doing for life and work, because AI is going to affect every industry, every job, every role, and you can already kind of see that happening. Copywriters and use chatgpt to help them write marketing copy. Artists are using mid journey and other art tools to help them create new forms of art, and there are a lot of like, short term consequences that are going to come out of that, but the long term AI is this tool that is going to be used by every job role to make them better at whatever they’re doing. And so it’s important now to start immersing yourself and learning what types of tools are out there. How can I start using it in my life, and how does aI think and work? And then how can I leverage that in whatever I’m doing? And so for everyone who’s listening, I think the best way to get started is to think about what you like to do, what’s a hobby or something creative that you enjoy doing. So if you like composing music, if you like playing music, there’s so many AI tools around writing music or composing it for every instrument out there. If you, if you’re an artist, play around with these AI art tools and learn how to take your own work and take it to the next level, because that’s really what AI tools are going to help you do. It is like a very exciting time, because there’s so much to learn, and you don’t have to be technical to be able to become an expert in using AI.

Stephanie Maas
Is there an AI tool out there to help me decide what to make dinner every night?

Denzil Eden
I’m sure there is. I am sure someone is working on that.

Stephanie Maas
There must be.

Denzil Eden
And if there isn’t someone listening who’s excited about this, like taking a picture of what’s in your fridge, because AI is at this level where it can, like, classify all the. Ingredients in your fridge, probably even how much of it you have, and coming up with generated recipes that you should do. And I’m sure they’re like meal planning AI tools out there too, but that’s what I mean. It’s going to be affecting like every part of your life. And so for everyone who wants to be a founder, or maybe debating being a founder, find a problem in your own life, find a customer who has that problem, and start building.

Stephanie Maas
So now that you’re at this level, who’s inspiring you, who’s helping you get through the mental hoops and getting to where you’re hoping to go?

Denzil Eden
That’s a great question. I am always looking for more folks to look up to, because it’s nice to have something to aspire towards. Something that I’ve been really looking for right now is trying to find AI like, micro influencers, folks who are staying on top of the most cutting edge trends around AI and so someone that I really like is Ali K Miller. She’s in New York City. She used to work at AWS, has always been in the AI machine learning space, and has just been such a great person to follow. But she’s always on top of, like the newest AI tools, the newest AI trends, and encouraging the non technical person to get involved. And so that’s someone I’m really looking up to right now, and I hope I can meet her someday.

Stephanie Maas
What do you think are some general fears or concerns people have around AI and how would you address those?

Denzil Eden
I think there are many, and I think they’re all very valid concerns. The first one is the jobs that AI will take. In the short term, I think there will be consequences around certain jobs being replaced by AI, but I think in the long term, I’m very optimistic, because AI is just going to open up more job opportunities, more roles that we can’t even foresee today. It’s very much like the Industrial Revolution, where certain jobs left, but so many more opened up in the long term. And so I see that as short term concern with AI, but a long term, very optimistic thing. A second big concern, I think, is really, of course, around security and privacy. And I do think the government needs to be involved in that conversation around, how do you regulate the security tools and encryption and what data sets companies are using? I think most governments realize how important it is to have regulation, but also have enough bandwidth to allow for innovation. And so I think that is also a short term concern, but one that is actively being worked on is well known. And the third one is bias. There’s a lot of bias in AI tools because it’s so based off past data, and past data really matters, like what you’re feeding into an AI technology. And so a lot of the data can be very biased towards a certain demographic, or it can be very biased towards a specific way of thinking, and so it’s really important to be doing audits around this AI technology that’s being built out and and checking like, is this a diverse sample set? Are the right people being represented here? So for example, with mid journey, if you prompt like boardroom, it might send back a picture of all white men in a room talking, and there’s no gender diversity, there’s no racial diversity, there’s no socioeconomic diversity, and so it’s really important to be checking like, what data sets are these tools using, and is it actually representative of the population it’s supposed to be serving? And so I think there’s a short term concern around that, but a lot of companies are popping up specifically around auditing what data companies are using. And so I think those are the biggest concerns, and I think we’re doing a good job of addressing and being aware of them. And I think it’s someone needs to also be thinking about, like, what else should we be concerned about? What are the unknown unknowns? And I don’t know what those are.

Stephanie Maas
You mean you don’t know what you don’t know? So you do have some limitations. Okay, good to know. Tell me how your experience has shaped your perspective as a female, especially in AI tech.

Denzil Eden
I think my biggest learning over the last few years, especially is that all that matters is grit and resilience. You can always figure out what you don’t know. And actually, this is it reminds me something that I was talking to someone earlier this week. Earlier this week about what is a growth mindset versus imposter syndrome. I think it’s really easy to tell yourself, oh my god, I can’t do this. I’ll never be able to do this having that imposter syndrome. But to shift that to being a growth mindset, you have to add on the word yet. I can’t do this yet. I’m not going to be ever able to do this. Should be I’m not going to be able to do this yet, and then changing our mindset around this idea of, like, Okay, I can’t do it now, but I can learn how to do it. I can find someone who does know how to do it and have them teach me. It’s about changing your entire mindset to how can I keep going and get where I need to go? And I think that is something that’s really important if you want to be a founder, and I think it’s just really important in life in general, never counting yourself too short and knowing that you have everything you need to get where you want to go.

Stephanie Maas
Now that you have gotten this investment, you’re on this path. What are your hurdles going forward?

Denzil Eden
I will say personally that is still my biggest challenge, like reminding myself my biggest job as a founder is to not quit, to keep trying, to keep trying to get to the destination that I know I want to get to. And it’s easy to get dissuaded by all of the things that go wrong every day. And so it’s really important to celebrate small wins. So on a personal level, it’s really around reminding myself I’m lucky that I get to be a founder. I’m lucky to have this opportunity, and despite any setbacks, I just need to keep going on a professional level. I think the big thing for us today, ex Marty, is to try to hit profitability. We are trying to get as many customers as possible. We’re trying to make the product as robust as possible. And so that’s just like my Top of Mind goal and concern for the year, and I think, don’t be worried about what the ecosystem looks like if you don’t see someone who looks like you, you should still pursue your idea. You should still take that risk and chance. I think, in relation to that one, if you have an idea, there’s so many ways today on the internet, to be able to validate and test your idea. And that’s something that I wish I’d really known as an early stage founder. I am a builder. I can code. So I immediately started coding a product that I thought people wanted because I was building it for myself. And really what I should have done is validated the idea, validated how it was going to look, validated who my customers were going to be. And if I could do it over again, I would have started there. And so it’s actually very simple to start testing and validating ideas. You can build up a wait list. You can have different landing pages for for your idea and see what brings people in. And then you can start doing customer interviews without having a product. You can build a prototype of a product using tools like figma. It is easier than ever to test an idea. And so I think if you have an idea, start testing it. You don’t need to leave your job, you don’t need to start building it with code. You can just start testing and seeing where the customers are, what are their pain points, and figure out how you can turn a profit from there.

Stephanie Maas
You know, what I really want is, I want to put a date on the calendar five years from now, and I probably won’t even need to wait that long and just watch what you’ve accomplished in the next five years. I think it’s going to be incredible.

Denzil Eden
I appreciate that. I hope so, but I also know, and for everyone who’s out there, I guess listening, that your path will change and wind in ways that you can even expect. But as long as you’re aiming towards a North Star, you’ll get somewhere you want. I think I really didn’t love that idiom where if you shoot for the moon, you’ll land in the stars, but it’s so true. Have ambitious goals, and regardless of what happens, you’ll end up somewhere you’re very happy to be.

Stephanie Maas
That is awesome. I so appreciate you being here. Thank you so much for your willingness to be with us today. I really appreciate it.

Denzil Eden
Of course, thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much.