Blackout Punch, with Chris Hunter – Episode 462 of The Action Catalyst Podcast
- Posted by Action Catalyst
- On June 25, 2024
- 0 Comments
- Adam Outland, author, beverage, Business, CEO, determination, drink, entrepreneur, founder, health, leadership, sales, success
We’re going loko! Chris Hunter, founder of several successful beverage brands, including the iconic Four Loko as well as the health-focused Koia, and the unique Not Your Father’s Root Beer, shares insights from his memoir, “Blackout Punch: an Entrepreneur’s Journey from Chaos to Clarity”, including the gap in the market that he identified that led to the creation of Four Loko, what they SHOULD have done at the very beginning to avoid disaster later, how the role of Founder/CEO is ill-defined (and why that’s a good thing), hunters vs. gatherers in sales, fighting the government to keep Four Loko legal, creating Not Your Father’s Root Beer, what success means as a younger man versus now, and the value of knowing you’re going to be wrong but taking the first step anyways.
About Chris:
Chris Hunter is a distinguished figure in the beverage industry, renowned for his innovative contributions and entrepreneurial spirit. Chris co-founded Phusion Projects, the company that invented Four Loko, a massively successful beverage that became a favorite of pop culture and a target of federal intervention. He is the co-founder and CEO of Koia, a plant-based protein beverage that has become one of the fastest growing consumer product brands in the nation. He is also responsible for the unique Not Your Father’s Root Beer.
Chris has cemented his status as a visionary in the beverage field, with billions of dollars generated throughout his career. His memoir, “Blackout Punch: an Entrepreneur’s Journey from Chaos to Clarity”, tells the engaging background story of how it all happened and the lessons learned along the way.
A serial entrepreneur, he lives in Miami with his wife and three young sons, where he enjoys yoga, cycling, running, and HIIT.
The Action Catalyst is presented by the Southwestern Family of Companies. With each episode, the podcast features some of the nation’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing meaningful tips and advice. Learn more at TheActionCatalyst.com, subscribe below or wherever you listen to podcasts, and be sure to leave a rating and review!
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(Transcribed using A.I. / May include errors):
Adam Outland
Today’s guest is Chris Hunter, the founder of several successful beverage brands, including Four Loko and Not Your Father’s Root Beer. His new memoir, Blackout Punch: An Entrepreneurs Journey From Chaos to Clarity, tells the story. How are you? Good to meet ya.
Chris Hunter
Good to meet you as well.
Adam Outland
You’re hailing from Miami right now. But where did where did you grow up?
Chris Hunter
Yeah, good suspicion than I didn’t originally grew up in Miami. I grew up in Youngstown, Ohio. Historically, if you look back generations of my family, it’s probably that there were a lot of Italian and Irish immigrants that were working in the steel mills. You know, Youngstown was once a booming metropolis for at a time top 10 city. Once the steel mills closed, and the and the auto manufacturers started shuttering this the city just got decimated. So I remember growing up and my great grandmother had these pictures of like Youngstown as this hotspot, right downtown was thriving, people were all over. And I’m like, Where is this place? Because I didn’t know any of that.
Adam Outland
Yeah, you know, I can’t imagine we’re going to talk about like your whole, successful commercial enterprises. But I’m always kind of curious. Usually, you know, a high schooler, or even a young recent graduate isn’t necessarily thinking like, Man, I’m going to start all these amazing beverage companies. I gotta, I got to know what were you on the track to do? Or what were you thinking you were going to do?
Chris Hunter
I don’t know that I had a big, aspirational kind of career path. Except for that I was like, I want to be rich. And growing up in a lower middle class family, like you recognize the restraints that money can put on a on a family. And I was fortunate that I got into a couple classes that were they call them advanced classes, they were really just opportunities to think outside the box, I got to do an internship when I was in like fifth grade, like all these unique things. And I feel like it opened my eyes to like, what I want to do isn’t here, or at least isn’t present in my life. I don’t know what it is just gonna be something different. That coupled with the fact that I always had this entrepreneurial spirit. It’s kind of like I could figure this out, I’ll find unique ways to make money that excite me, propelled me into what I ended up doing. I could not have mapped out my career path, though. What was the first business venture for you? Yeah, I mean, you can go way, way back and say the first business venture was, you know, being a first grader coloring pictures out of a coloring book and selling them door to door. I did that right. But but really more and there’s many of those examples along the way. But maybe more officially was in college, there were three businesses that I started. One was never really structured as a business, but it was actually the largest. And it was cold fusion projects, which ended up being my, the parent company of for logo. And it was a it was a promotions business. So I would do nightlife promotions, mainly in Columbus, but in other cities across the country. It paid really well. It was a heck of a job for a college student, you know, bring people together, especially out of the bar and nightclub. And I met a lot of people. The other business I started, which was actually with one of my fusion projects, partners was called Wild havens. And the idea was that we were going to give people access to unique and exclusive events in different cities or locations around the world. And we put a little effort into them, probably lasted about a year, and then we shut that down. And then the third was, was a magazine. We started in Columbus with some different partners. It was centered around four main aspects of the city. It was entertainment, it was personality, I forget the other two, but you get the idea. It was a free publication. That’s really where I started, like learning a little more about business. And then then I moved to Chicago was just trying to figure out how to pay my bills and ultimately took a job and then started fusion projects.
Adam Outland
What did you learn in the events business about what you liked and didn’t like?
Chris Hunter
I loved working with people, right? I loved interacting with people. I’m a social guy by nature. I felt like it was really eye opening the impact of relationships, right how much they matter and how many doors they can open. One of the things I didn’t like was for the future. You know, it was obviously young and single at that time. But that’s a very grueling career path nights and weekends. And, and so I wasn’t sure that that was the right right path for me. At the time, I probably wouldn’t have said that. But looking back, that was a good pivot.
Adam Outland
The best thing ever!
Chris Hunter
It was amazing. Yeah, so go to Chicago and I refuse to get a nine to five type gig I ignorantly felt like my experience was more than that, right, I wasn’t going to take some entry level corporate job. And that was fine. In theory until a couple months in, I had credit card debt racked up and is like I got to figure out a way to pay bills. And you know, what really tipped tip, the scale was there was one day where I could not pay rent, and my now wife, girlfriend at the time, cut me a check to cover rent. And I was like, Man, I really got to do something. Now, while though I had met these guys who were doing this hail damage gig, basically, like storm chasing, they’d go to neighborhoods that were impacted, and they would, you know, facilitate the roof repairs that are all making a ton of money. It’s like, I’m going to take this job. And you know, you didn’t need any qualifications. The funny thing, the ironic thing of that is I’m afraid of heights. So I’m climbing on roofs. But you know, necessity or desperation, whatever you want to call it will make you do some interesting things. And that was one of them. And I never lost the contest. I’d never lost the contract because I needed the money. But I didn’t want to do that for long. Yeah, from my promotions career, I had collected a lot of contacts and business cards. One of them was a guy that was involved in a startup vodka company. And long story short, I bugged him literally email and call every day. And so he gave me a job. And that’s what got me into beverages.
Adam Outland
Wow. So you had this persistence.
Chris Hunter
To give you and idea how aggressive or desperate interchange whatever word you want, I was at that time, there was this startup, there was this other startup vodka company that was very popular in Chicago was called effing vodka, they ended up becoming a pretty big brand. And I liked that brand. And I wanted to work for them. And I did the same thing with them. So much. So that I said, If I don’t hear back from you, I will assume an interview on Tuesday at 10 o’clock. And I showed up at there, I never heard back from him. And I showed up their office. And no one was there, I left my resume on the desk and walked out. But like, that’s how aggressive I was because I gotta eat, man, I gotta pay the bills.
Adam Outland
That’s amazing. It’s who was that then the person that you ended up with in terms of working on this on for a logo or no?
Chris Hunter
So I started selling vodka for this company. And they put me in quite possibly the most difficult situation that you can have, which is on premise, which is bars and nightclubs and restaurants in Chicago. And the reason it’s the most difficult situations, because every brand is spending their money there that have big budgets, right. And so I was going in these places with no budgets and no experience, just ask him, you know, to believe my story or to believe in me and put the product in their in their stores. I did that for a couple months. Then he started expanding my responsibilities. So I managed off premise, which is stores, grocery stores, liquor stores, whatever may be in Illinois, and then they expanded me to five states. At that point, I realized that I understood at least enough the distribution game, you know, in alcohol, it’s a three tier system. So you have the supplier, which is the creator of the product, you have the distributor, which takes the product to the bars of the store, and then you have this retail location. And so I understood that I met enough people, and I was selling a lot of the vodka that was being mixed in with Red Bull. I was 25. I was out also drinking a lot of vodka mixed in Red Bull. And so I said, you know, maybe we should try to do this as a combination ready to drink product. And so I called my old college buddy. He’s the guy that I had tried to start wild havens with. And I said, Hey, I’m thinking to start in this thing. And he’s like, yeah, man, he was part time in it a couple months in we realized neither of us really wanted to do the financial modeling and DAX and I had a buddy who worked for ABN AMRO, I called him and I said, Hey, what do you think? Yeah, man, and that’s how we got started. Our investors were friends and family. You know, where I started being that I’m from Youngstown, blue collar, lower middle class there, there was no money from friends and family for me. Fortunately, my partner’s both went to their families, and they put in small amounts of money in retrospect for the size the company became, but that was our investment. We didn’t have the experience or the connections to really go raise traditional funding, and so we bootstrapped it and and that looking back luckily, we did because I think that had we had more money in the early days, we would have just spent more money on all the wrong things.
Adam Outland
What were some of the walls and challenges that you didn’t expect in and growing this thing?
Chris Hunter
Well, everyone had told me at the beginning, like, make sure you understand the exit. How do you guys separate in the future? And being naive 25 year olds, I think we just blew past that, hey, we’re friends, who cares, it’ll all work out. And quite frankly, like, I assumed I was kind of the connection point, right, I brought the two guys together, I assumed I would always kind of be in the majority with one of them. And it wasn’t really a big deal. And so we just set up Legal Zoom documents that were very, like, basic. And it was kind of like majority rules. And in retrospect, you know, I learned that we should spend more time thinking that through we were not thinking big picture long term, things change, people change, lives change. I mean, mine Sure did, right. I was 25. At that time, in my 30s, I got married, I have three kids now, like life was very different. And that ended up coming back to bite me. So it was kinda like, let’s just divide and conquer, right? Let’s not, I have a different mentality than you. And instead of aligning or hashing through that, what do you do what you want your world and I’ll do what I want my world. And we brought in the business coach when the company got bigger, and he identified that that was a significant threat to the business quickly, he said, You guys have a three headed monster with no real hierarchy. And if you can’t figure this out, you’re gonna sink the business, and it was too big for for us to sink at that time.
Adam Outland
We’re talking you grow into 10 million, 50 million 100 million in revenue, different challenges at different points, right? Can you can you give a few examples of like, what was challenging about getting to 10 million versus what it was like going to 100?
Chris Hunter
Yeah, it’s all challenging, like you said, but it’s just in different ways. And I think for me, that early stage of 1 million to 10 million is is challenging, but it’s a lot of fun, because you’re celebrating a lot of wins, often. Right? And, and you’re trying new things, and you’re able to be scrappy, and, and, and atypical in your approach and things. But it’s difficult, right? Because it really matters. I mean, we were at Fusion, we were almost out of business for the first two years, consistently, right? month over month, there were times where we didn’t take salaries. And so those are different challenges than when we went into hyper growth when we grew from eight to 100, and 150. Plus, in two years, like, those are different challenges. Those challenges are like, how do you keep your materials coming in? How do you keep inventory? How do you scale fast enough to support this kind of growth, right, and then, and then accoya, I would say, it was a little, it’s a, it’s been a little bit different as we went through that phase of going from 10 to 50. Plus, you’re really putting in more infrastructure, and more systems. And to be quite honest, that’s not what I love to do. And so it was really important for me to have a team that did love to do that. And I still gets funny, I still get frustrated with some of the systems that are in place. Like, who cares? Just, you know, whatever. And they’re like, No, this is the process. Can you please follow us so they have to hold me accountable?
Adam Outland
Do you feel like your gift is like you’re the resident Rainmaker, like bringing in connections and relationships?
Chris Hunter
Yeah, I think every founder and CEO are gonna have a different skill set. And that’s something I didn’t realize, as a kid, I thought, like the the role of founder or CEO was very well defined. It’s not right. And so understanding where I add the most value has been really important to me. And it’s definitely that it’s, I am a salesperson, I enjoy marketing and finding unique ways to build awareness. And then I enjoy working on strategic partnerships and high level relationships. And so, like, where that comes into play, and is the most effective for the company, would be the example would be Koya. With Starbucks, you know, I knew that Koia was a fit for Starbucks, I knew it’s somewhere that we wanted that product to be distributed since day one. So eight years ago, I started working on how do we get into Starbucks. And we had plenty of starts and stops along the way, I never gave that up. As to one of our sales team, I said, this is my account that I’m going to figure out. And it was definitely not a linear path. But I was able to strike a strategic partnership with Starbucks, and koi is now distributed in Starbucks nationwide. Those are the kinds of things that one excite me and two, I feel like I can do and maybe you can’t hire others to do on the team. I love that. Look, there are in sales, there are hunters and there are gatherers, the way we think about it right in the hunter, I not only my last name, but I am the hunter, right I like enjoy going and creating the new relationships and striking the new deals. And that’s a lot of fun for a lot of people. There are other people who are gatherers and they enjoy optimizing those relationships and building on them. And there’s a lot of things that a lot of us can do. But it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do right and so I can do that but it’s not the highest and best use of of my time or skills.
Adam Outland
Selling isn’t just an external thing right? Finding partnerships and selling and bringing in business is super important. But sales is a skill in general about communication. And you end up in leadership, finding yourself selling the vision to your people or selling lots of things internally right to get it done. And I’m kind of curious. I mean, one thing that popped out to me was the government regulations and a little battle that you got to kind of jump back into what you faced when you were, you know, faced with some sort of the government agencies trying to keep for local, legal, right. How did your communication skills? How was that relevant in that in that issue?
Chris Hunter
Yeah, it’s a complex question. And situation that was very intense, as you can imagine, but trying to summarize it up in a nutshell, it was really important for us to get aligned on how we were going to address these situations. They were very serious, right to the point where we were being sued by the FDA, that B, which governs alcohol 18 Attorney General’s, there were frivolous lawsuits, class action lawsuits coming out of the woodwork, there was a point where I was told by our legal representative representation, don’t answer the door, because you may get served papers or arrested, right, it was that intense. And so for us looking back at it, or at least for me, looking back at it, I was baffled because we played by the rules, our our beverage was approved by the TTB. It was approved by every state that it went into that included the formulas, the cans, everything that we’re being criticized for, was legally approved. And so they had they it broad sensitives had applied pressure to other brewers that were doing similar things, and they were much larger than us. And so for them, it was like this isn’t worth, you know, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. And so they just voluntarily reformulated and changed the products that were selling. For us, it was the only thing we were selling. And so our take was, hey, we will play by whatever rules you put out there. But you have to make them consistent and fair. Because if we voluntarily change, all that does is leave the door open for the next person to come along and do it until they get big, right. So in terms of communication, it really tested us with my theory is like high highs and low lows will bond you right? They’re extreme, and they’re intense. And it’s easy to get along during those times. But it doesn’t mean it’s easy to communicate during those times. We were running a breakneck pace. We were trying to approach everything in a line fashion, but it didn’t always happen. And so our communication could have been better. Or we got through it.
Adam Outland
Literally some life changing moments during that time for you.
Chris Hunter
Absolutely. Yeah.
Adam Outland
I guess one of the more recent ventures was not your father’s root beer.
Chris Hunter
Yeah. So I start to look at, I started to look at what assets we had as a company, right. And it’s very easy to understand that you have the brand with the revenue and the distribution, that’s clearly an asset that most people look at. And understand. We added another asset, which was we had roughly 325 distributors across the country and some in other countries that touched every retail location in their territory. So we had a distribution network. I’m not saying we owned it, but we had access, right. And so as I was thinking about, we had this big company, relatively big company and big brand, or relatively big brand that was almost taken away from us at the whim of a change of government regulations. How do we diversify? So innovation and diversifying was really important? And then the second is how do we use our assets? And so for me, at that time, craft beer was a hottest thing in the world, right? Everyone was launching craft beers. But there were there were a lot of the same. There were unique stories. Oh, this one’s from Chicago. This one’s from San Diego, but the product itself was not really that different. And so we were really lucky that we were introduced to one of our relationships to a guy named Tim Kovac, who was this like kind of mad scientist Brewer and he had come up with this alcoholic Root Beer it had no name it had no real and and he was in the Chicagoland area. And when I tried this stuff I it was this like the light bulb went off. It was this immediate realization of this is unique needs in the craft beer space, which is popular, this is unique. No one else is doing this right now. And it’s in our wheelhouse, because what we really did with for locals around flavoring, right. And so for me, that was exciting. It was something new, as I mentioned earlier, like creating something new. And so this was really exciting. So there was also some internal turmoil developing as I mentioned about partnerships and lack of clarity of roles. And so I said, I’m gonna dive into this, and I dove into that, and when we brought that thing to life, it was one of the most exciting things I’ve ever seen. We took it from non existent to uniquely branded and to being the fastest growing craft beer in the country in a matter of 18 months and then we ended up selling had to pass. The other thing that was exciting to me about that. As I mentioned, I like to work on things. I’m aligned with it. Whatever phase of life I’m in. That was 25. When we started Four Loko, caffeine and alcohol didn’t seem crazy, it was part of, you know, our weekends. At this point I was I was early 30s. And craft beer was much more by speed. So you know, that was kind of an exciting evolution and then again, realizing where I was in life and circumstances got me into a place where better for you and healthy products were really important to me.
Adam Outland
That’s so interesting. It’s It’s like your beverages reflect your your state in life like now you see I energy like go get it in the beginning. And there’s more like this calm, healthy. Yes, yeah. I love the bound and gravitated towards things that reflected that for you, right, that you pursue products that you were passionate about for you. Just quick lightning round. One thing that I always wanted to know from guests is what’s one piece of advice you’re really glad you didn’t listen to.
Chris Hunter
So it’s, it’s something I’m actually working through right now. Koia is a refrigerated plant based protein drink, it’s a ready to drink product. So bought off the shelf, you open it, you can drink it right away. It’s delicious. It’s it’s low sugar, it’s all the things that you wouldn’t expect when you hear plant based protein drink, right. And the refrigerated space is very niche. In a sense, it takes additional capabilities to have refrigeration from production all the way to the shelf. It’s a very competitive and difficult category. And so we’ve heard from multiple people throughout the years, like, Okay, you guys are a refrigerated beverage. That’s where you need to stay. And over the years, as we’ve talked to our consumers and listen to them and understood innovations that worked and didn’t, we realized that what qualia really stands for is delicious plant protein or delicious pork protein in general, we are now launching Koia. in different formats and channels, we have a shelf stable tetrapack version that will be available on Amazon, we’re launching a kid’s line will launch a powder. And so the advice that I’m happy we didn’t follow in the long run was staying in our lane.
Adam Outland
So you listen to someone but the advice that you’re taking is from your customers and their accessibility, not necessarily from some consultant. Love that. One of the things that I think is a lot of our listeners wonder is when you’re dealing with a large organization, large team and you’re responsible for leading it time is one of the most scarce resources that you have. Yeah, what’s one habit or practice that you feel saves you the most time each day?
Chris Hunter
Well, I try and I’m not always successful at this, I try to block my emails. And what I mean by blocking them is I try to dig in emails and run through them all and then try to go do something else. And I’m not always successful at it. But when I do that, I feel like I have the most satisfaction and productivity and the least anxiety, what can suck me in or anyone is just sitting in front of your computer and hitting refresh on the email box. Like if I find myself doing that, I usually need to just pick up the phone and call that person rather than going back and forth. So that’s that’s one thing. I think one of the things I’ve learned over time is is prioritization is really important. And for me, this is the season of life that my family is absolutely the number one priority. I’m married, I have three kids, 11, nine, and six. And when I sat back and thought about it, I realized that I will always be able to create brands, I will always be able to grow them. And while I’m not neglecting them, I also realized that my children will only be this age once. So when I have something that can do for the long run, and I have another thing that is only once, I’m going to make sure that I prioritize and focus on that only once thing.
Adam Outland
I love that too. Yeah, you brought at the very beginning of this podcast. He said, as a young man, success meant to you making as much money as possible. That’s paraphrase. But you said money was number one, define what success means to you now and how you know when you’ve achieved it.
Chris Hunter
So that’s a great question that I think has multiple aspects to it. I think first of all, the most important thing for me was learning and understanding who I am. And when I when we brought in this consultant back at Fusion projects, he did these personality assessments and behavioral assessments, the one we did was called disc, and there’s many of them. And he came back to me at that point and he said, Listen, if you have this perception of getting rich and retiring on a boat, get rid of it right now because you will be drunk, you will be addicted you will be divorced and you will be miserable. That’s just my personality. Right? And so that was really impactful to me because it helped me realize like where I grew up success look like oh, you get to retire on a beach, drink a margarita and you don’t have any worries. That would actually be detrimental to me. And so success means that I can stay in the mix work on things I want to work on not need to work on anything. But But enjoy what I’m doing every day staying active. And I think that not only will keep me healthy, it’ll keep me alive.
Adam Outland
And so you’ve come to really enjoy the game itself.
Chris Hunter
Trust me, there are days that I’m like, Oh man, I’m in too deep again, you know, it happens. You get blinders on running a business, you forget about everything else in the world. And sometimes that’s necessary. But in the big picture, yes. What What I enjoy now is growth. And growth is not comfortable. You know, I went to Iceland and trained on breath work and cold water exposure. Those are all just got done marathons. And Ironman is those are all growth opportunities for me. I want to I learn from my kids every day. That’s growth. And I’m learning in business every day. And that’s growth and growth is really important. And also keeps me motivated.
Adam Outland
Two last quick questions; one morning routine, but what does it look like in the morning if you have your ideal routine?
Chris Hunter
I’ll tell you when it’s been in this best. And when it’s been at its worst. So my wife got really into Joe Dispenza meditations. And so we woke up every day at 6am. We meditated for about a half hour and then we got our day started. And we were done meditating, and off like the day before the kids ever woke up. At night, we would take time after we put the kids to bed, that was our time to catch up on the day and talk those are two really important things. That’s when it looks at its best. Of course, you add in eating healthy and exercise and all that all that stuff, I think which is kind of table stakes. At its worst, which I go through times now is one of them. You know, I’m waking up just before the kids, I’m getting five minutes in with my wife, I’m down to the coffee to get myself going and kind of frantic all day. It’s never perfect for me. And but the beauty I guess is I can realize when it’s not perfect and adjust rather than just think that’s how it is forever.
Adam Outland
I’m gonna rephrase this question I typically ask her yes for you. Typically, I might ask you, you know, what advice would you give a 21 year old version of yourself, but I’m going to change it and say, what’s the piece of advice or the value you really hope to instill in your kids?
Chris Hunter
Those are those would probably be the same answers. And I think they are be willing to take risks. And just take the first step. I will caveat that by saying the biggest mistakes I’ve made in my career have all been when I thought it was going to be easy when I didn’t put in the work and I wasn’t going to be committed for the long haul. So I think there’s real value and really digging into what you’re about to do or what you’re considering doing what you think it’s going to take. Do you want to do it you know, asking yourself all those questions up front. But don’t get paralyzed by analysis. Take the first step because you know, whatever plan you put together, whatever path you think you’re going to take, it’s absolutely going to be wrong on day one. So just jump in. Just start be open to making mistakes, be open to learning and course correcting right, because progress is the key there is no perfection.
Adam Outland
it’s so interesting that so many people I did miss identify failure and mistakes, right? Like they think failure is this horrible thing that they shouldn’t avoid at all costs. And from experience interviewing all of these brilliant people like yourself, who’ve built multiple successful enterprises failure is something that almost you have to embrace.
Chris Hunter
Yeah, a reframe of that is is that a reframe of that, for me is that it’s only really a failure if you don’t learn from it. And so, you know, we choose to look at life as life is happening for us, not to us. And so when you look at things through that lens, what could be perceived as a failure or a setback can also be perceived as the best redirect you could ever have. And that one that you may not have chosen, or purposely self imposed, but it was imposed for a reason. And so if you look for that reason, and you go with the idea that life is happening for me, you can start to find the silver linings and the beauty in it.
Adam Outland
Life is happening for you. I really like that one I’m going to take that was me, Chris, this has been fantastic interview I know you just mentioned and published this book blackout punch and entrepreneurs journey from chaos to clarity, which I think will be great for so many of our listeners, because that’s the journey many of them are on. So thanks for giving us some of your wisdom here today and some anecdotes for our folks to take home with them.
Chris Hunter
Yeah, it was fun. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
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