What Great Brands Do, with Denise Lee Yohn – Episode 84 of The Action Catalyst Podcast

Brand leadership expert, author, and speaker Denise Lee Yohn explains what it means to have “brand as business”, why you’re ALWAYS representing not one, but two brands, and the importance of having an integrated approach.

About Denise:

Through her expertise and personal approach, Denise has become an in-demand keynote speaker inspiring business leaders around the world to build great brands and exceptional organizations. Her keynote presentations have captivated international audiences at conferences including TEDx, the Consumer Electronics Show, The Art of Marketing, the National Restaurant Show, and Sustainable Brands, among others, and at corporate events for Facebook, Lexus, NFL, and more.

Denise enjoys challenging readers to think differently about brand leadership. With that goal in mind, she has written several books including the bestseller What Great Brands Do: The Seven Brand-Building Principles that Separate the Best from the Rest and FUSION: How Integrating Brand and Culture Powers the World’s Greatest Companies.

She is a regular contributor to the Harvard Business Review and Forbes and has been a sought-after writer for publications including Fast Company, Entrepreneur, Knowledge@Wharton, ChangeThis, Seeking Alpha, QSR Magazine, among others. News media including CNBC, The Wall Street Journal, and The New York Times call on Denise when they want an expert point-of-view on hot business issues.

Denise initially cultivated her brand-building approaches through several high-level positions in advertising and client-side marketing. She served as lead strategist at advertising agencies for Burger King, Land Rover, and Unilever and as the marketing leader and analyst for Jack in the Box restaurants and Spiegel catalogs. Denise went on to head Sony Electronic Inc.’s first ever brand office, where she garnered major corporate awards as the vice president/general manager of brand and strategy. She has served clients as an independent consulting partner since 2004.

For her work with some of the world’s greatest organizations, Denise has won awards from the American Marketing Association, HOW Magazine’s Interactive Design competition, the Financial Communications Society, Sony Corporation, and Sony Electronics Inc.

When she’s not writing or speaking on brand leadership, Denise serves as the Founder/Director of Faith & Work Journey.  She is also a board member of Cameron House. She has served as an advisory board member of the Millennium Alliance and World Brand Congress, a judge for the Association of Management Consulting Firms Awards, a finalist selection committee member for CONNECT’s Most Innovative New Product Awards, and the brand director for TEDxSanDiego.

Outside of her professional roles, Denise counts hiking to Everest Base Camp, dancing with a professional ballet company, and flying a helicopter as some of her greatest life experiences.

Learn more at DeniseLeeYohn.com.

The Action Catalyst is presented by the Southwestern Family of Companies. With each episode, the podcast features some of the nation’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing meaningful tips and advice. Learn more at TheActionCatalyst.com, subscribe below or wherever you listen to podcasts, and be sure to leave a rating and review!

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(Transcribed using A.I. / May include errors):

Host
Denise Lee Yohn, she is a speaker, her book is called What Great Brands Do, The Seven Brand Building Principles That Separate the Best From the Rest. She’s been the lead strategist for advertising agencies for Burger King and Land Rover, Jack in the Box. She went on to head Sony Electronics, their first ever brand office, Frito Lay and Oakley, and Denise, thanks for being here.

Denise Lee Yohn
Thanks for that great introduction.

Host
So just kind of, first of all, you know, obviously you’ve got, you have the background and the pedigree of, you know, working with the big brands and everything. What caused you to write the book? How did you, why did you even say, Yeah, I want to, I want to go ahead and turn this into a book?

Denise Lee Yohn
Yeah, well, I, you know, I should start by saying that I love brands. I’m passionate about them. I’ve been studying them for years. I’ve been working on them. You know, as a consumer, I’m fascinated by them, and as a professional, I’m even more fascinated and so, you know, certainly I, you know, this is a topic that I want to share my thoughts on. But more specifically, I feel like there’s a lot of misunderstanding about how great brands and big brands get to be so successful. And so I wanted to share what I had learned from my research and work about what great brands do.

Host
You talk about this concept, it’s called brand as business.

Denise Lee Yohn
Yeah. Well, maybe it would be helpful to contrast that to brand as logo or brand as name or brand as tagline, marketing, advertising, PR, website, whatever you know. I think that a lot of people, when they think about brand, they think about those elements which are really, I would call them expressions, or ways to communicate your brand, but your brand is your business if you are, if you are using your brand correctly. And so brand as businesses, is simply a phrase to kind of say, you know, there should be no separation. There should be no difference between how you’re managing developing and growing your brand as how you’re managing developing and growing your business. And a lot of it has to do with your culture, you know, inside your organization, has to do with the actual customer experience that you’re providing, and, you know, your company operations and strategies, what you actually do. So it’s really a very, I think, more comprehensive thing than people want to think of just a brand as, I mean, you know, think about like Apple, you know, Apple has, what, millions of fans around the world. I don’t think any of them love Apple because they’ve got a great logo, or even that, you know, that they have great advertising, and they have some really cool creative advertising that I think, really, you know, rallies people and gets people hooked. But it’s really the Apple products and the Apple stores and the apple community, and the Apple apps, all you know, all of that is what makes Apple Apple, and that’s what the Apple brand is.

Host
What do you think is different kind of if you you look at this approach that you call brand as business?

Denise Lee Yohn
I think that, you know, it probably starts with the first principle in my book, what great brands do. The first principle is great brands start inside, meaning that they start brand building by cultivating a strong brand led culture inside their companies. And that also means that that means that they are saving, communicating, expressing their brand through things like a logo or a marketing campaign for after they’ve actually created this strong culture inside. So it’s really about being more more focused on on how you’re running your business, why you’re running business, what are the values and attributes that you want to be known for and that you are really cultivating among everyone who works on your brand? And that’s where you start. And then once you’ve got that to a point where you feel like, okay, we’re really creating value here, then you go out and you start working on your external image.

Host
So do you think that’s one of the big mistakes that people make, is they do those in reverse order?

Denise Lee Yohn
Absolutely. I mean, you know, how many times do we read about, like, when a corporation is in trouble, and the first thing they do is, oh, we’re going to launch a brand campaign, or we’re going to change our name or refresh our logo, and, you know, and I’m not saying that those things aren’t important, but I think that, you know, customers are pretty savvy these days, and, you know, a new logo or a new tagline, those things are kind of like, you Know, dime a dozen, and people really want to know, okay, what, what are you doing that’s different, you know, what, what value are you creating for me? Why should I pay attention to you? And the, you know, the external image is only a part of that.

Host
How does personal branding fit into this?

Denise Lee Yohn
You know, I think within a corporation, you know, you are in charge of your career, right? And I spent 15 plus years in the corporate world, so I know you know how hard it is to, you know, shape your career and pursue your individual career goals at the same time supporting and, you know, pursuing your company’s objectives. And. I think that you know you need to be very cognizant of what you are known for within an organization so that you can accomplish those goals and and a lot of that has to do with, again, the value that you create, the projects that you sign up to, to work on, the way that you conduct yourself in meetings. And you know a lot, I think, unfortunately, some personal branding experts are much more focused, again, on your image. You know, how do you what does your avatar look like on social media? And you know, you know, and how do you dress? And again, those things are important. But I wouldn’t be advising both within a corporation as well as a small business owner or an individual consultant that it’s really you need to focus on, you know, what value you’re creating and how are you doing business that’s distinctive, and, you know, memorable and compelling, and you know, and as a salesperson, I think that you are, when you go and you call on a customer, you’re not only you, you’re representing two brands, your own brand and your company brand. And I, and I would venture to guess that most buyers are, you know, basing a, you know, buying decision on both of those brands. You know, it’s they want to know. Is this person that I them sitting, you know, across the table from, you know, do I like them? Do I respect them? Do I trust them? But then, and then, in addition, you know, do I want to do business with this company? And so it’s really, I think, the combination of the two that makes a very powerful sales presentation.

Host
I’d love to hear like an example of some companies where you go here is somebody who had a very weak brand, and it was not going well, and then they did this and this and this and this, and it changed.

Denise Lee Yohn
Well, I’ll talk about one of the my clients that I worked with a while ago, and so I think I can speak fairly freely about them. And they’re a public company. It’s a fast food chain called Jack in the Box, and I would say that when we started working with them, they had the image that they had created from their television commercials. So Jack in the Box has this CEO character, Jack, who’s kind of like a kick butt, you know, fun, funny, bold, convention breaking, kind of CEO. And these advertisements, I think, really created this personality that people liked, but there was a very big disconnect between that image and what you would actually experience in the store. You know, in fact, I think the executives would agree when we started working with them, the other stores were somewhat dirty, somewhat slow. Service was inconsistent. You know, probably inconsistency was probably their biggest problem, and they had definitely had bright spots, but they also had a lot of problems. And so the work that we did, you know, we certainly helped them refine their position and really kind of focus more on their positioning. But more importantly, what we did was worked with every person who worked on that brand, from you know, the executive team to the corporate departments to the franchisees. You know, both the master franchisees that own hundreds of units, as well as the smaller franchises, and then the restaurant employees all to understand what is their role in interpreting and reinforcing the Jack in the Box brand. And you know, there was certain there was a certain positioning, a certain personality, values and attributes that that they wanted their brand to be known for. And through that work, I think that the stores, the store experience, has become much more in line with what this image was. Now they still have a long way to go, and I’m sure that, you know, you would you, if you went into Jack in the Box, maybe nine out of 10 times, or maybe eight out of 10 times, you’d get this great experience that that reflects their brand, but you would still have some inconsistency. But I think the most important thing was that that, you know, they brought in a lot more personality into what they were doing in the stores. A lot of their stores decided to stay open 24 hours, and they built a whole late night program and a special menu and kind of special promotions to promote this kind of late night time, which really appealed to their millennial target customers, and kind of would be the kind of thing that this jack character from the advertiser would actually do in the store, and so I think, and now, if you look at their stock price, as if that’s any indication of the success of this change that they’ve made, I don’t want to misquote, but I want to say that their stock is on fire, and I don’t want to take credit for that completely, but I think that’s part what our work was, in part what has been contributing to their success.

Host
Now you use the phrase integrated approach. What does that mean to have an integrated approach?

Denise Lee Yohn
Oh, well, at the most fundamental level, I think it means that you do what you say that you are doing, you know? So I always say that a brand can’t just be a promise. It needs to be a promise delivered so you’re integrating your promise with your actual execution. But I think integration is also about every aspect of what you’re doing, every aspect of the customer experience, needs to be integrated so that it creates this branded experience, this really compelling, different. COVID experience for the customer. And so it’s you know, about making sure that your products are the types of products that you have are, you know, expressing the value that you want to be known for. The types of services you offer are integrated with those products. The pricing that you use reflects the value that you want to be known for. You know, the promotions and the marketing you do build up an expectation that then is delivered from those products and services. So it’s all part of a cohesive whole.

Host
Let’s say somebody that’s out there listening and their small business owner, what’s the first thing they should do?

Denise Lee Yohn
It’s probably safe to say that in most every area, every sector, every industry, the competition is has already increased or is increasing, and your need to stand out and be known is becoming, you know, even more critically important, and you can’t just expect your customers to figure that out. You know, if we just run a good business, people will, you know, will come to us. I mean, that’s not the way that it works today. You need to stand out and give customers a reason to choose you. So that’s why it’s important. And then I would say, you know, part of the reason why you might have all these different, you know, logos or expressions, or, you know, different brochures, or, you know, whatever, maybe because you yourself as as a business owner or partner team, are not focused and clear yourself on, what does your brand stand for? You know, what is that core essence or core purpose or core mission that really holds everything together? And so you, I think you need to spend some time, and it’s not something that is, you know, takes a long process, and it’s not something that you even really need to spend any money on, but you need to do some very, you know, serious like introspection and strategic planning on what is it that we want our brand to known, be known for, and very clearly articulate that don’t assume that people just get it or people know it, but, you know, write it down and make sure that it’s clear on what you stand for and how you’re different and better from your competition. And then from there, I think, is a matter of then ensuring that everyone who works on your brand shares that understanding and then brings that to life in their area of responsibility. And if you don’t create a reputation for yourself, one will be created, right?

Host
Where do you want people to go, Denise, to connect with you?

Denise Lee Yohn
Yeah, so, um, definitely you go to my website, DeniseLeeYohn.com, and that’s d, e, n, i, s, E, L, E, E, y, O, H n.com, and from there, you can actually access all the information about my book. There are materials for my book that you can download, links to where you can purchase it, and then that also clicks or links you to my blog and newsletter.

Host
Absolutely. Thank you for sharing this with us. Denise Lee Yohn.