Done Success, Ready for Significance, with Tanis Jorge – Episode 449 of The Action Catalyst Podcast

Tanis Jorge, serial tech entrepreneur, author of The Cofounder’s Handbook, and Founder of The Cofounder’s Hub, talks about exiting “unicorn” Trulioo, meeting both her husband AND her business partner in high school, finding the right person to go into business with and building businesses without killing each other, plus what separates entrepreneurs from corporate, the shocking statistic about failure between founders, her favorite “poor woman’s meal”, and why “no business partners with benefits” is rule #1.

About Tanis:

Tanis is a serial tech entrepreneur and a leading advisor on entrepreneurship and building successful cofounder partnerships.

​Over the course of her career in startups, spanning the last 20 years, Tanis has cofounded, scaled, and successfully exited multiple, data-driven businesses with the same partner. 

​Her successes culminated with her most recent venture, Trulioo, which she co-founded in 2011. Between 2011 and 2015, Tanis served as Chief Operations Officer of Trulioo, working to lay the groundwork and build the foundation for the trusted, innovative, and disruptive company it has become today. In 2021, Trulioo reached “unicorn” status, solidifying both its place as the world’s leading identity verification company and Jorge’s track record for founding successful businesses.

​Today, Tanis is one of the go-to voices and experts on the cofounder relationship. Author of The Cofounder’s Handbook and Founder of The Cofounder’s Hub, her work focuses on how cofounders can function in an open, productive, and symbiotic way to ensure continued and long-term business success.

Learn more at TanisJorge.com.

The Action Catalyst is presented by the Southwestern Family of Companies. With each episode, the podcast features some of the nation’s top thought leaders and experts, sharing meaningful tips and advice. Learn more at TheActionCatalyst.com, subscribe below or wherever you listen to podcasts, and be sure to leave a rating and review!

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(Transcribed using A.I. / May include errors):

Tanis Jorge
Hi, good to meet you, Stephanie.

Stephanie Maas
Hey, you too, I was super excited to spend some time with you. In preparation for our time when I was reading about your background and some of your accomplishments, there was actually a quote that made me think of you from Rihanna. Oh, yes. So, obviously, some of your notable accomplishments are being one of three Canadian women accomplishing what you have done this elite status. And the quote from Rihanna says there’s something special about a woman who dominates in a man’s world. It takes a certain grace, strength, intelligence, fearlessness, and the nerve to never take no for an answer.

Tanis Jorge
Wow, that’s awesome.

Stephanie Maas
So I thought maybe we could kind of start there. As you’ve made this journey. I don’t think you are the typical formula for the kind of success you’ve had, especially as a woman in a male dominated world totally.

Tanis Jorge
Okay. Sure. So I grew up in, in a family of salespeople, I guess that was the the start of it. My dad was had a very successful business, which started off as a door to door vacuum cleaner sales in the 70s. So that’s, that’s kind of where we start off with. So growing up, my dad would really use that as a framework for how he raised me. So for example, you know, he always said to me, tennis, everything is a numbers game, you just work hard. And eventually, you’ll succeed. And, you know, I took that to heart. And I think it actually gave me a set of confidence that I could succeed. And whatever I put my hand to, I guess, was the overarching understanding that I took away from that. And I think that was really, I mean, if everything really is just a numbers game, then, you know, that’s exciting for anybody who’s got grit and determination. So I pretty much always expected success, and it was on me to fail. From there. I had a public school education, you know, through elementary school, went to a private school, in high school. And that was where I met two key figures in my life. That was where I ended up meeting my husband, and my long term business partner. So two people that were in high school that definitely changed the trajectory of my life. Little did I know it, I wasn’t really scholastic. I was an academic, I was there to socialize, we had a good time. But one of the things that I did notice in high school was, it didn’t make sense to me that there was this formula for what was deemed as you were a good student that didn’t I didn’t fall into and again, an example of that was, I did a project I remember one time in particular, that I kind of really went out of the box to answer the questions and to really complete the project. They wanted just, you know, some an essay, they wanted worksheets filled in. And what I did was I did like a video back in the 90s. So this was like, it took a lot of work to do a mix video in the 90s. And I did this video, and I remember getting like a C minus and the reason for that was because you know, you while you didn’t answer these questions long enough, and I just thought, wow, like I really I did something really unique here. And, and I think it was at that point that I really felt tainted by the education system. And I think I started to see how maybe entrepreneurship was going to be the route that I was gonna go, you know, college university never was anything that I was interested in. And it wasn’t too long after our graduation. I was about a year and a half later that my best friend in high school Steven offered called me and said, I have an idea for a business and he never went to college or university either. I said, Sure. Let’s give it a go and more for me. The idea of working with him on a project again, it was about fun. I’m very highly motivated by fun. So Little did I know that was going to be the next two decades of my life building businesses with him. What was your first job, telemarketing, actually, I sold McLean shuttling and flair, which is magazines in Canada. So magazine subscriptions, and then I moved on to selling carpet cleaning telemarketing, I was probably I want to say, probably 13 or 14 years old, and I did that and then waitressing after that.

Stephanie Maas
Ok, so then you got your buddy who calls and says, Hey, let’s do this project. Yes. You know, you’re what? 20 at the time?

Tanis Jorge
Exactly.

Stephanie Maas
Where did you go for resources?

Tanis Jorge
So, you know, looking back, I realize we we were very brave, or we actually just jumped in and and one of the takeaways from that experience was the amount of times that Steven and I would say to ourselves, why did they teach us this in school? You know, Why were we not taught some of this stuff? That’s just very common sense. And not even just about the actual knowledge of running a business, but also the mentality that’s required within it, you know, really setting you up to understand that it’s not easy. You know, again, I was fortunate, I think that my father’s, you know, mantras in my head, hey, just keep going. It’s a numbers game. That was was a big part of it. But honestly, we really felt our way through everything. There was a shift in technology, we were really learning that the tech scene was not very mature yet. So this was a time when it was $50,000. If you wanted to build a website, you know, now you can do it with, you know, free on Wix. Right. So it was a very different time. And we had to be very strategic on the capital that we had, and really anticipate what we were doing. And it was really, it was a trial and error in so many ways.

Stephanie Maas
So that first project, what level of success did it have?

Tanis Jorge
So we built that company, it took us three years, and it was successfully acquired after three years.

Stephanie Maas
Bought by Experian?

Tanis Jorge
Exactly. And then we built two more companies. After that each of them took about three years to build, and successfully exit. They were also acquired. So over 10 years, three companies, all of them were acquired. So we were very fortunate for that, too.

Stephanie Maas
If you don’t mind being vulnerable enough to share, what were some of the challenges that you faced? How did you overcome them?

Tanis Jorge
So it was very interesting. So for 10 years, I built three companies. And then we started Trulioo, which was our biggest venture that we had. And about three or four years into that venture, I started to get questions, you know, I start to get calls from people saying, listen, could I have you come and speak about being a woman in tech? And I remember the very first time I was asked that, and I thought that was a very odd question. Because I had never thought about myself in that world as a woman, like it never was a major component that I considered, I never actually saw it as ways of being an advantage at times, actually. And, and I think it was interesting, co founding a business as a, like a male, female, we actually took advantage of that, we learned about human personality. And we started to identify that there was people who were sometimes more comfortable around men or more comfortable around women. And there were times would be like, we would say to one another, a, you take this because I think she likes you. You know, she hasn’t, she’s more comfortable around here, she doesn’t seem to, you know, maybe that was the case. And so for us building our businesses, it was a small element. And when it was utilized, it was to our advantage, so to speak of it as a woman in a man’s world, I can honestly say I didn’t ever really feel that was my experience. And it’s interesting, as I’ve had the opportunity to speak to women in different venues about business, I find that the response I get afterwards, especially from young female entrepreneurs, is almost a sigh of relief, that they really believe sometimes that going out into these industries that are male dominant, that it’s going to be a terrifying experience. And to hear that in many cases, it’s just going to be normal, and it’s going to fall on you having an incredible business model. And that’s where the pressure is gonna lie. I think it can actually take a little bit of pressure off of these young young women. And you know, we were the underdogs in many ways already. because of our lack of formal education. I say underdogs, if anybody approached us about anything, it was about the fact that, Oh, you don’t have a universe, like what degrees do you have? And if anything, if there was anything we were pushing back on, it was our lack of education. So maybe if I was focused on anything that I thought needy was, was what would be putting us at a disadvantage? It was that component.

Stephanie Maas
Okay, so now talking about this entrepreneurial mindset, because one of the things I do think that’s coming out of this next generation, is I think that they are way more entrepreneurial by nature than mine or the generation before etc. So when folks are and you mentioned something about this, about this, just mindset a little bit. What do you think sets that entrepreneurial mindset apart from the rest?

Tanis Jorge
Yeah, you know, it’s risk aversion. I just had a I had an advisor meeting with somebody yesterday, you know, he started off on What books should I be reading? You know, what, what do I need to get ready? What did you think of this and really in depth in depth questions, and I said to him, ultimately, at some point, you’re not going to have all your ducks in a row. At some point. You got to jump off the cliff, and you’re not going to know what’s at the bottom, you’re going to pull your parachute. And it may or may not be there. And you need to understand that you will never know exactly the next step in front of you. And I think for a lot of people, even just their core personality is not set for that environment, I actually very much flourish, I seek that environment out. So I know that I’m already built internally in that way. But at the same time, I’ve also had experience under my belt, and I understand that you will never know everything, and you just have to go for it. And I think that is what separates the entrepreneur from someone who stays in, say a corporate job is they they get to the point where the security is no longer there, and they have to make that decision. Do I continue? Or do I? Do I stop, because it’s too risky. That’s where the rubber meets the road. And that will determine whether or not you up and down. So it really is just saying, I’m going to do this.

Stephanie Maas
I love that. I think being true to yourself to your point you go I flourish in those environments. And if you don’t, that might be something you need to listen to. And if you don’t do, that’s probably something you need to listen to as well.

Tanis Jorge
Absolutely, and I had my co founder, I had Steven as well. And I think you know, it is extremely valuable to have that person beside you. So when you’re down, they’re there to lift you up. That’s a big piece as well in success. So if you are more of a risk adverse person, or if you really worry about that journey ahead, finding that person beside you to run along with you is one of the probably one of the greatest assets that you can have.

Stephanie Maas
So that’s exactly where I wanted to go next. So you mentioned Hey, for you, you were lucky to meet this person in high school? Yes, I would imagine by the time you guys started working together, there’s a there was a foundation of a relationship. There was trust, most people aren’t going to probably have that. So what do they look for? How do they know this is the right partnership? And I know part of it is trial and error. But what other counsel would you give to help with that?

Tanis Jorge
Yeah, so I’ve been fortunate as I’ve, as I researched for my book, I have talked with hundreds of entrepreneurs and hundreds of co founders, and heard their stories of how they met people. And interestingly, it runs the gamut. I have had people who never met their co founder and they that person flew over to their city, and they met at the airport for the first time only after a couple of conversations. You know, that was one story to people who its family, it’s their best friend, it’s people they met at a at a conference, it’s people they met at work, it was an old high school friend, or an old elementary school friend that they ran into at the grocery store and got talking about something, you really never know where that person is that that can come into your life. And for people who are need to be, you know, aggressively looking for a co founder, there’s tons of different ways that you can do that, whether through meetups or really going after your network, one of the things that I say to people is that you are going to need to do the first task of an entrepreneur and that is put yourself out there. And so it’s talking to people to say listening, I listen, I’m looking for a business partner. This is a bit about what the role will entail. This is a bit about my business. Do you know anybody? Do you maybe know somebody that I can do an intro me and I’ll reach out to them and, and I think for some people, that’s scary as well. But really utilizing your network and taking advantage of those people who know you and know the people that will give the recommendation. That’s a big one.

Stephanie Maas
As you think about what you’ve done, up until this point, you know, it’s easy to look at your accomplishments and say, Oh, you must be so proud. You must be so proud. But I’m always surprised when I ask folks this questions. While they appreciate the accolades, they appreciate that, quite frankly, Tanis you’re probably in the midst of making history. You know, my kids, kids are probably going to learn about you in 2030 years from now. But for you like when you think about what you’ve done so far, what are the things you’re most proud of what really puts a smile on your face before you fall asleep at night?

Tanis Jorge
I guess it would be the beats the odds story. You kicked the podcast off in the very beginning and just said, you know, you didn’t have that typical journey. And I think that that has been something that I am proud of. I had big dreams as a little girl. I always did. I always aspired for more. And I looked around me, and I wondered how I would get that we lived in you know, my parents live paycheck to paycheck in a lot of ways. I lived in a not so great neighborhood, and I knew that there was mega success. stuff out there. And I had no idea how that was ever going to come about. I didn’t have the network, my parents didn’t have any connections for me, there was nothing. So, you know, I think it’s having that vision that I had at an early stage, I had vision boards at 17, you know, on my fridge of everything and, and I really had these big dreams and the fact that I am where I am today, and I complement it, it’s actually surprising because the steps along the way, I’d never thought, Here I am, I’m building. I’m building what, you know, the successful experience. At the time, it did not feel that it was like, What am I doing? I was spinning my wheels here, you know, and then after a few years goes by them, but we had a success. Okay, great. And then the question goes, Well, I gotta do that again. You know, every time we built a business, it was back at scratch again, it was what are the chances of succeeding a second time, you know, and that that discouragement, almost in doubt, is really, really heavy. And then we did it a second time. And it was like, Okay, that was a fluke. You know, it’s got to be deep in the back of your mind, you’re like, how are we going to do it again, we have to do it again, you know, and then slowly, you start to see that, oh, maybe we’ve got a system here. Maybe we’ve got a bit of a pattern that we’re able to duplicate. But at the time, it didn’t feel like that. So I guess I’m most proud that that I took that journey, despite really deep down feeling I wouldn’t succeed necessarily.

Stephanie Maas
Ok, I’ve got a silly question.

Tanis Jorge
Oh, I like silly questions.

Stephanie Maas
Okay. So you come from, you know, a certain kind of background. You mentioned earlier, having to, you know, develop your own financial literacy. So that first big paycheck, what fun thing did you buy yourself?

Tanis Jorge
Oh gosh, I paid debts off. And the first like two, three businesses. I think of geez, we went straight to real estate, a condo is still there’s still a condo, but we splurged and we bought in this neighborhood that we’ve always wanted, as by the beach. And I think that would have been really definitely where we we sunk our first sort of extra cash.

Stephanie Maas
So what’s next?

Tanis Jorge
So when Trulioo, my final venture, I decided that it was time for me to exit the day to day and I stepped out, I was trying to figure out what it is that I wanted to do with my life. And I looked at two things. One was I love to travel, and I love to public speak. Those are the two things that I really enjoyed. And I thought, well, what am I going to talk about? And I could obviously talk about entrepreneurship had had some success under under my belt, so I could talk about that. But I felt that was crowded. And then I thought about the people again, who would approach me and said, How have you built multiple businesses with the same person, and you haven’t killed each other yet? You know, that was the premise. And I realized, as I started to do research, that there wasn’t a lot of tools for people. And I have a huge passion for entrepreneurship, I think it is the foundation of our financial system. I think it is this foundation of our nations, I think it’s so important, those dreamers are so valuable. And I figured this would be a way that I could really help entrepreneurs out by assisting in the partnership. And so I began on a journey, just interviewing co founders. And I wrote the book, the co founders handbook, from that, I’ve realized, again, that there is even more that can be done to assist co founders. So we I started the co founders hub, which is a platform and resource for entrepreneurs to be able to build stronger partnerships. There’s tools, resources, there’s there’s events coming and, and all of this, and I’m really at that stage now where I’ve done success ready for significance. And at the same time, really want to build into the next stage of entrepreneurs that are out there in the grind, and they’ve got this person beside them. And that person is are their greatest asset or their biggest liability in their business. And I want to make sure that it is the greatest asset.

Stephanie Maas
Very cool. A lot has changed since you first started your first business with you know, it’s I think it’s a lot more commonplace. We see side hustles all the time popping up, which I think to your point is that’s really the foundation of most of our world. And I think we got away from it as a society for a while. And I think with this next generation, especially it’s really coming back thoughts advice, counsel, first thing you want to share with someone who says, Hey, I think I want to be an entrepreneur.

Tanis Jorge
So I the first thing that I would tell people is obviously if you can find a mentor, find an idea, obviously, that fills a need, and find somebody who’s succeeding in some way or another in that and sit at their feet. And it’d be humble. I think one of the key messages for today’s generation is to really also I’ve understand it’s going to be hard. And and, and it’s going to be more expensive and take more time, like the classic story of all businesses. But it’s also I think, one of the greatest achievements one can have in their life. And so being able to really undertake that journey is worth it for anybody. So I would tell them, find a mentor, really anticipate what it will take to get that business up and going, get educated in that industry, obviously, but also recognize that every business has sales in the end. So always add education and sales, you’re gonna have to pitch yourself, even if you’re a dentist, you have to you got to be in sales. So really, you know, getting that well rounded. But mostly, it’s that mentality that this is going to be a sacrifice, you won’t have all the answers, but enjoy the journey as you do it.

Stephanie Maas
No, I think that is so powerful. I appreciate you sharing that. Because especially in this day and age of instant gratification, you see what is set up to look like oh, they just hit it big overnight. And when you really delve into people’s stories, it really wasn’t like that. And even your story from the outside could almost appear that way. Hey, you know, three businesses, they were all great. But to your point, you said it takes longer. It’s more work and it costs more. That’s reality. Yeah, if you’re living for the get rich quick and publicity of it all, you’re probably going to be in for incredibly rude awakening, and it’ll be short lived.

Tanis Jorge
Absolutely. If there is any any side note on that, too, is that I we never took a paycheck until we sold our business. We didn’t have that luxury. So we worked always. So when people say Oh, you were so lucky. I’m like, Well, would you go three years without a paycheck? And you’re writing checks to your employees? And you’re like, hoping out we never we never took a paycheck until our businesses sold. So again, that is that’s a key piece of it as well.

Stephanie Maas
So another silly question if I could. So our mothership Southwestern family companies, we got our start, it was a publishing company, but became really, we really made our name for ourselves through working with students, and they go out and sell books door to door in the summer. Oh, it’s an incredible program called Southwestern advantage. It’s just really amazing. You know, you work 1216 hours a day, you save every dime that you possibly can for the idea of this big check at the end of the summer. And so, to this day, one of my favorite poor man meals or woman meals, whatever you want to call it, is a peanut butter and jelly. Like that’s what I ate all summer long to save money. Bread was cheap. Peanut butter was cheap. Jelly is cheap, it would keep all day long, so I didn’t have to worry about refrigerating it. To this day. Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches is a comfort food for me. Even though it was a really hard time. I was working my butt off. You know all these things. But it’s a comfort food. So do you have a poor woman’s something that you ate? That takes you back to those days?

Tanis Jorge
Yeah for sure. I think it would be chicken with cream of mushroom soup with a can of cream of mushroom soup. And like, really like white? White bread like super, super thick, fluffy, filled with chemicals? Not like white toast bread with a to dip in the cream of mushroom soup with your chicken?

Stephanie Maas
So you’re laid up in bed, your husband’s like, Honey, what can I make for you? And you’re like, I need the chicken with cream of mushroom. Please? And the really bad bread.

Tanis Jorge
Exactly. Exactly. That’s totally it. I love it.

Stephanie Maas
Anything else you want to make sure we talk about or hit on while we’re together?

Tanis Jorge
I don’t know. You know, I think that for me, obviously the message right now is to to talk to people who are in a partnership and who are looking to get into one about the kind of the hard work that that’s going to take so many people focus when they start a business on how are they going to get to revenues? How are they going to build an incredible product. But what they don’t realize is that 65% of businesses are going to fail because of issues between the founders. If people are not being intentional with that relationship, often they do kind of a set it and forget it experience where they just sign the partnership agreement. That’s the last time they ever put any thought into it. And unfortunately, what I see over and over again, is issues and conflict arising which is really, you know, preventable in so many ways. And it’s unfortunate and this is why I wrote the book is because it doesn’t need to be that way. It doesn’t take much but it takes maturity to build that relationship. And I think that that is my focus right now is to really explain to people that it’s not something that you can just jump into and let alone you actually be on a daily, weekly, monthly annually basis have to sit down and go, How are we?

Stephanie Maas
Oh my god, it sounds like a marriage.

Tanis Jorge
It is I will completely the only difference. The only difference is that…

Stephanie Maas
The sex? Just kidding.

Tanis Jorge
No partners with benefits, thats number one. Absolutely no, that I think that the only difference is is that in a marriage, you’re focused on each other’s happiness. But if you can, in a partnership, you want to focus on the happiness of the business. And I think if you run everything through that filter, which is what is this the best thing for the business, then any situation or issue that arises, there are actually ways to remedy them. Without the emotional, I always take the example of people who want a family member, their spouse or their kid to work in the business. And the other partner doesn’t want that, you know, if I say I don’t want your wife in the business, you know, that’s highly emotional charged comment. So you can say, Oh, interesting, what’s best for the business? Is she the right person for the role? Are we going to make the best decision? Is it going to affect culture, for the business, you know, these kinds of things, it can kind of take that away. So while in many ways, it parallels a marriage in that particular way. It should and needs to have a different filter that everything’s run through. It sounds so logical, it does. But when you’re in the entrepreneurial journey, it’s a roller coaster, you’re constantly putting on full out fires, you’re constantly on this person, you can take them for granted very easily. But if you can make sure that you are to each other that cheerleader, that coach, that accountability partner, then that journey is so much easier and so much better. It seems easy, but just like in a marriage, it’s very easy to take people for granted.

Stephanie Maas
Well it seems logical, but to your point, we’re very emotional beings. So super helpful. Tanis, thank you so much. I’ve really appreciated you carving out some time thoroughly enjoyed our time together.

Tanis Jorge
I really appreciate it. Thank you, Stephanie.